They are the scapegoat.
The problem is that our jobs are getting sent overseas.
Taking this out on poor immigrants who just want minimum wage jobs (or less) is a waste of effort.
As for unionization, getting rid of the immigrants wasn't the solution. Why? Because blacks were still barred from a lot of unions in the 20's and 30's.
why the site tries to get to the statistics and details because both of those statements are absurd.
I wish Obama was a socialist, obviously he is a corporatist. I mean touting his great legislative accomplishments for two major corporate lobbyists giveaways in history.
The "racist" crap is also a public relations talking point. I get very burnt out on it and why going there on either side on this site would be considered fiction.
But also the point of EP is to narrow the scope of conversation into only econ, labor econ.....plenty of places to argue philosophies or whatever, very few give accurate stats on much of anything.
So are spin white papers which try to manipulate labor economics equations or statistics, either side. (or any white paper spin where you have to go down into the bowels of the theory, mathematics, statistics or assumptions to dig out the flaws and battle the buzz headline claim).
They provide services. You bought those services by paying taxes. Without those services, local, regional, state and national economy suffers. Those services support other elements of the economy.
For example, if you do not have law and order, then you assuredly will not have businesses operating. It will cost them in crime costs. If you do not educate the kids, you are guaranteed to lose your economic future, plus additional costs for what to do with kids if they are not in school....
list goes on and on.
You're not adding the math correctly as I'm repeatedly pointing out there. AGAIN, I just did an overview on the latest GDP report and I even lay out the basic equation for GDP. You can clearly see government spending in the equation and how it works.
Nope, no global reigning in of the banksters, from where all of this originates...nope, can't do that. Only screwing the middle classes can get some cash.
How is the M3 going way down when we know the Fed has been printing like crazy? The first quarter they were still buying mortgage bonds and they pumped a portion of cash into the Euro bailout (I've read our portion was going to end up at $200 billion between that and recharging the IMF which was broke after that).
Is that showing the banks hoarding cash or is there literally a second set of books out there?
All those things are paid for by taxes paid by people who work in the private sector.
100%of a public sector employees check comes from taxes.
None of a private sector employees check comes from taxes unless they are in the Keynesian government/private military complex.
You mentioned how the school system was at fault before. Well when I was in school there were no teachers aides, no school psychologists, the class sizes were not mandated, there was no esl classes and now that those things exist schools cost more and produce less quality results. Thats a prime example of government out of control and bloated. Its run by unions now essentially.
How much government is the question. Diminishing returns?
This "must speak Spanish" demand for teachers and on and on is clearly something the U.S. cannot afford, but more importantly is discriminatory against U.S. teachers for jobs in their own country. Sure one can maybe offer one translator, but expecting large public institutions to support a dual system considering how pathetic K12 is, #1 being class size, this should be not a priority.
But what is the point. You keep zeroing in on elements such as public employees and now kids of illegals when I just wrote up Q4 2010 GDP which clearly shows State and Local gov. spending pulled off 0.5% from revised GDP. It's going to be much, much worse because states are broke, the Senate refused to stop offshore outsourcing of your job and thus denied UI plus help to the States.
Sure, these special interest groups are full of it, misrepresent labor econ to use public relations to name call all of America per their agenda, which assuredly is not in the U.S. long term national interests...
but this is almost a side show to the Banksters, the trade deficit, and how we cannot get one line of legislation that is going to turn this economy around.
The fundamental draw of El Norte is work (and massive illegal drug consumer market).....so once we're all in the 3rd world, that draw will cease.
But it's other policies and legislation that's pulling us to a double dip and further economic collapse in comparison.
I'm not saying this insanity is not a net negative, I've read the stats, the theory, obviously it is, but not in comparison to the Federal Reserve printing trillions to buy up toxic MBS.
You seem to forget the types of services they provide. They catch the crooks, teach the kids, process your DMV form, put out the fires, work at the library and on and on.
All of those services add to the overall economy. Additional U.S. workers of all types buy stuff and that adds to the overall economy.
You cannot get welfare unless you have kids and kids of a certain age. Plus you cannot have something like < $2500 total in assets. Therefore, owning of a car disqualifies you.
Remember "welfare reform" in 1996? It's a joke, about the only people who can get it are those who know how to work the system.
Single, healthy, ready to work adults can go homeless and get some food stamps. Food stamps won't cover enough to eat.
There were jobs then in manufacturing for people that couldn't read, write or speak english. Now we pamper that group with English as a 2nd language which is a costly program. Back then people wanted to learn to speak english.
The hispanic community is so large they do not have to speak english or even try. I have heard this directly from teachers.
Remember when Oakland wanted the US DOE to recognize 'ebonics'?
Not to nit pick because of course public employees pay taxes but 100% of their income and benefits comes from taxes so its a negative in the long term.
Wouldn't anyone cut off from unemployment qualify for welfare etc?
I realize its not the same but I know people who have lost benefits and are working 4-5 part time jobs to make ends meet rather than go on welfare. The lower payments were an incentive to taker anything that was available.
Regarding the rest - like I have said a few times we had 60 Dems in office the first year and no attempt to raise taxes on the wealthy were made. I have read where Obama wants Cap Gains taxes to go to 25% rather than be bracket based. We are still spending huge amounts overseas fighting where no one can win - huge waste of time, money and not the least - blood.
They block campaign finance reform. Even worse, even in the primaries people will not boot these people out of office. Take Barney Frank. He clearly needs to go, but his district will never boot him out. Anyone who wants to represent the people cannot generate enough funds to run. Both parties put up millionaires for candidates.
So, I would say not only do we need campaign finance reform, we need reforms within the Congress itself. Right now, when someone gets a committee chair, they can lock out pretty much any meaningful reform. Say deal with leadership. They refuse to bring bills up to a vote, even when they have an overwhelming majority in co-sponsors.
Then, the "conferee" game. We just saw yet another bill get shredded (financial reform) and this is after it passed both houses. That's ridiculous to allow a bill to be shredded or seriously altered after it passed both houses.
Then, the seniority game in Congress. Why should seniority weigh in on assigning committee chairs? That means the same corrupt bought off Congress representatives can lock out any change.
Campaign reform is the only real way to fix this.Every day citizens are asleep at the wheel,the whores in office know this and hope they don't wake up.But it is going to get real bad and real quick and before this falls election.What amazes me the polititions don't realize whats coming and how informed we are getting with all thanks and gratitude to sites like this one.Frank The Tank
These clowns are rich, many of them rich enough to self-finance their campaigns, yet they have no qualms about calling you and me up to ask for $500 or $1,000 (or even the max) so they can keep their jobs and keep screwing us. In Florida there are at least two candidates who are self-financing (Greene for Senate and Scott for Governor) and taking on their party machines with money. Not a bad idea -- if enough near-billionaires get into our system, and if they have any awareness of what the country really needs, they can tell the pundits and the lobbyists to take a hike while they get about the process of real reform. It's worth considering. I can imagine some analogue of Bloomberg saying "Screw you, Glen Beck. Out of my office Goldman Sachs. America has some real work to do and decent people have lost too much and I am going to help the country, not you."
It will probably put hundreds of thousands into the street, homeless, with only food stamps available.
Do you know the same millionaire creeps (most of Congress are millionaires, especially in the Senate), claimed Americans are lazy, druggies, bums.
If anyone should be stripped of their income and savings it should be these Senators. Let them try living on food stamps for awhile. Let's do it. Let's outsource Congress. Hell, China and India are in part running our government anyway. Let's make it official.
at this point. I've seen it repeatedly, especially via punditville, say Glenn Beck and so on, they rail on some enormous truth, say how ineffectual or corrupt Congress is or whatever...
but then try to turn that to some corporate agenda as the answer.
i.e. "small government". People obviously do not want "small government", they want a real government, not corrupt, efficient, competent that actually represents the people and acts in their best interests.
There might be a fraction who says "so corrupt, might as well shrink it" as a result, but I don't think that's what most people want.
Just today, the GOP doesn't want to admit they want to offshore outsource your job through tax incentives, so they mis-characterize the bill as "raising taxes".
If it got out that the GOP wants to make sure your job is shipped to India or China...
I think we'd see a real different reaction.
I think we could do a "top 10" or "top 100" re-framing of an issue to advance some corporate agenda as the "alternative" list on here. Health care. What's the beef? No cost reduction, a cave to lobbyists and special interest...what's the channel?
scary "socialized" medicine. They have got to be kidding me. and it seems to work which is amazing.
Some of these unfortunate people join the Tea Party and tell government to stop trying to help them (not that the government efforts in this area have done much). Seeing how the banksters have bought both the ruling political parties, it is an understandable reaction -- but also reflects some degree of "false consciousness." To paraphrase a popular song of the twenties, "The rich get richer and the poor get screwed."
I don't believe that the "Government Officials" realize what they are about to cause. When millions of people have no income money can't be spent. And those desperate enough will become criminals. I don't know about every unemployed person but I am going to do whatever it takes to keep a roof over my childrens heads and food in their stomachs. We did not ask to be unemployed, we did not ask to be left having to come up with our own ways to defend our families. As for millions not having money, do they not know that if you have no source of income you have no money for groceries, gas, clothes, etc. If "WE THE PEOPLE" can't afford the basic things then that's money lost from the economy. Isn't this going to make things worse and not better?
They are the scapegoat.
The problem is that our jobs are getting sent overseas.
Taking this out on poor immigrants who just want minimum wage jobs (or less) is a waste of effort.
As for unionization, getting rid of the immigrants wasn't the solution. Why? Because blacks were still barred from a lot of unions in the 20's and 30's.
why the site tries to get to the statistics and details because both of those statements are absurd.
I wish Obama was a socialist, obviously he is a corporatist. I mean touting his great legislative accomplishments for two major corporate lobbyists giveaways in history.
The "racist" crap is also a public relations talking point. I get very burnt out on it and why going there on either side on this site would be considered fiction.
But also the point of EP is to narrow the scope of conversation into only econ, labor econ.....plenty of places to argue philosophies or whatever, very few give accurate stats on much of anything.
So are spin white papers which try to manipulate labor economics equations or statistics, either side. (or any white paper spin where you have to go down into the bowels of the theory, mathematics, statistics or assumptions to dig out the flaws and battle the buzz headline claim).
Drives me nuts.
They provide services. You bought those services by paying taxes. Without those services, local, regional, state and national economy suffers. Those services support other elements of the economy.
For example, if you do not have law and order, then you assuredly will not have businesses operating. It will cost them in crime costs. If you do not educate the kids, you are guaranteed to lose your economic future, plus additional costs for what to do with kids if they are not in school....
list goes on and on.
You're not adding the math correctly as I'm repeatedly pointing out there. AGAIN, I just did an overview on the latest GDP report and I even lay out the basic equation for GDP. You can clearly see government spending in the equation and how it works.
I see a tendency towards a type of McCarthyism from the far left and the far right. They assign a key phrase to something and ignore any realities.
The key word for immigration enforcement is 'racist'.
On the other side when they target Obama its 'socialism'.
These derisions make any discussion on political subjects break down.
Nope, no global reigning in of the banksters, from where all of this originates...nope, can't do that. Only screwing the middle classes can get some cash.
And something that bothers me.
How is the M3 going way down when we know the Fed has been printing like crazy? The first quarter they were still buying mortgage bonds and they pumped a portion of cash into the Euro bailout (I've read our portion was going to end up at $200 billion between that and recharging the IMF which was broke after that).
Is that showing the banks hoarding cash or is there literally a second set of books out there?
On paper its clearly a negative.
All those things are paid for by taxes paid by people who work in the private sector.
100%of a public sector employees check comes from taxes.
None of a private sector employees check comes from taxes unless they are in the Keynesian government/private military complex.
You mentioned how the school system was at fault before. Well when I was in school there were no teachers aides, no school psychologists, the class sizes were not mandated, there was no esl classes and now that those things exist schools cost more and produce less quality results. Thats a prime example of government out of control and bloated. Its run by unions now essentially.
How much government is the question. Diminishing returns?
This "must speak Spanish" demand for teachers and on and on is clearly something the U.S. cannot afford, but more importantly is discriminatory against U.S. teachers for jobs in their own country. Sure one can maybe offer one translator, but expecting large public institutions to support a dual system considering how pathetic K12 is, #1 being class size, this should be not a priority.
But what is the point. You keep zeroing in on elements such as public employees and now kids of illegals when I just wrote up Q4 2010 GDP which clearly shows State and Local gov. spending pulled off 0.5% from revised GDP. It's going to be much, much worse because states are broke, the Senate refused to stop offshore outsourcing of your job and thus denied UI plus help to the States.
Sure, these special interest groups are full of it, misrepresent labor econ to use public relations to name call all of America per their agenda, which assuredly is not in the U.S. long term national interests...
but this is almost a side show to the Banksters, the trade deficit, and how we cannot get one line of legislation that is going to turn this economy around.
The fundamental draw of El Norte is work (and massive illegal drug consumer market).....so once we're all in the 3rd world, that draw will cease.
But it's other policies and legislation that's pulling us to a double dip and further economic collapse in comparison.
I'm not saying this insanity is not a net negative, I've read the stats, the theory, obviously it is, but not in comparison to the Federal Reserve printing trillions to buy up toxic MBS.
You seem to forget the types of services they provide. They catch the crooks, teach the kids, process your DMV form, put out the fires, work at the library and on and on.
All of those services add to the overall economy. Additional U.S. workers of all types buy stuff and that adds to the overall economy.
You cannot get welfare unless you have kids and kids of a certain age. Plus you cannot have something like < $2500 total in assets. Therefore, owning of a car disqualifies you.
Remember "welfare reform" in 1996? It's a joke, about the only people who can get it are those who know how to work the system.
Single, healthy, ready to work adults can go homeless and get some food stamps. Food stamps won't cover enough to eat.
There were jobs then in manufacturing for people that couldn't read, write or speak english. Now we pamper that group with English as a 2nd language which is a costly program. Back then people wanted to learn to speak english.
The hispanic community is so large they do not have to speak english or even try. I have heard this directly from teachers.
Remember when Oakland wanted the US DOE to recognize 'ebonics'?
Not to nit pick because of course public employees pay taxes but 100% of their income and benefits comes from taxes so its a negative in the long term.
Wouldn't anyone cut off from unemployment qualify for welfare etc?
I realize its not the same but I know people who have lost benefits and are working 4-5 part time jobs to make ends meet rather than go on welfare. The lower payments were an incentive to taker anything that was available.
Regarding the rest - like I have said a few times we had 60 Dems in office the first year and no attempt to raise taxes on the wealthy were made. I have read where Obama wants Cap Gains taxes to go to 25% rather than be bracket based. We are still spending huge amounts overseas fighting where no one can win - huge waste of time, money and not the least - blood.
They block campaign finance reform. Even worse, even in the primaries people will not boot these people out of office. Take Barney Frank. He clearly needs to go, but his district will never boot him out. Anyone who wants to represent the people cannot generate enough funds to run. Both parties put up millionaires for candidates.
So, I would say not only do we need campaign finance reform, we need reforms within the Congress itself. Right now, when someone gets a committee chair, they can lock out pretty much any meaningful reform. Say deal with leadership. They refuse to bring bills up to a vote, even when they have an overwhelming majority in co-sponsors.
Then, the "conferee" game. We just saw yet another bill get shredded (financial reform) and this is after it passed both houses. That's ridiculous to allow a bill to be shredded or seriously altered after it passed both houses.
Then, the seniority game in Congress. Why should seniority weigh in on assigning committee chairs? That means the same corrupt bought off Congress representatives can lock out any change.
Campaign reform is the only real way to fix this.Every day citizens are asleep at the wheel,the whores in office know this and hope they don't wake up.But it is going to get real bad and real quick and before this falls election.What amazes me the polititions don't realize whats coming and how informed we are getting with all thanks and gratitude to sites like this one.Frank The Tank
These clowns are rich, many of them rich enough to self-finance their campaigns, yet they have no qualms about calling you and me up to ask for $500 or $1,000 (or even the max) so they can keep their jobs and keep screwing us. In Florida there are at least two candidates who are self-financing (Greene for Senate and Scott for Governor) and taking on their party machines with money. Not a bad idea -- if enough near-billionaires get into our system, and if they have any awareness of what the country really needs, they can tell the pundits and the lobbyists to take a hike while they get about the process of real reform. It's worth considering. I can imagine some analogue of Bloomberg saying "Screw you, Glen Beck. Out of my office Goldman Sachs. America has some real work to do and decent people have lost too much and I am going to help the country, not you."
It will probably put hundreds of thousands into the street, homeless, with only food stamps available.
Do you know the same millionaire creeps (most of Congress are millionaires, especially in the Senate), claimed Americans are lazy, druggies, bums.
If anyone should be stripped of their income and savings it should be these Senators. Let them try living on food stamps for awhile. Let's do it. Let's outsource Congress. Hell, China and India are in part running our government anyway. Let's make it official.
at this point. I've seen it repeatedly, especially via punditville, say Glenn Beck and so on, they rail on some enormous truth, say how ineffectual or corrupt Congress is or whatever...
but then try to turn that to some corporate agenda as the answer.
i.e. "small government". People obviously do not want "small government", they want a real government, not corrupt, efficient, competent that actually represents the people and acts in their best interests.
There might be a fraction who says "so corrupt, might as well shrink it" as a result, but I don't think that's what most people want.
Just today, the GOP doesn't want to admit they want to offshore outsource your job through tax incentives, so they mis-characterize the bill as "raising taxes".
If it got out that the GOP wants to make sure your job is shipped to India or China...
I think we'd see a real different reaction.
I think we could do a "top 10" or "top 100" re-framing of an issue to advance some corporate agenda as the "alternative" list on here. Health care. What's the beef? No cost reduction, a cave to lobbyists and special interest...what's the channel?
scary "socialized" medicine. They have got to be kidding me. and it seems to work which is amazing.
Some of these unfortunate people join the Tea Party and tell government to stop trying to help them (not that the government efforts in this area have done much). Seeing how the banksters have bought both the ruling political parties, it is an understandable reaction -- but also reflects some degree of "false consciousness." To paraphrase a popular song of the twenties, "The rich get richer and the poor get screwed."
I don't believe that the "Government Officials" realize what they are about to cause. When millions of people have no income money can't be spent. And those desperate enough will become criminals. I don't know about every unemployed person but I am going to do whatever it takes to keep a roof over my childrens heads and food in their stomachs. We did not ask to be unemployed, we did not ask to be left having to come up with our own ways to defend our families. As for millions not having money, do they not know that if you have no source of income you have no money for groceries, gas, clothes, etc. If "WE THE PEOPLE" can't afford the basic things then that's money lost from the economy. Isn't this going to make things worse and not better?
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