Could it be that we are finding ways not to spend money we don't have? Here in Florida, the state constitution says "No Income Tax", thank you very much.For most of us, it means that all that us left (ex fees and at the pump gasoline tax) becomes real estate and sales taxes. People are appealing their inflated tax assessments -- despite their being lower than last year by 25%. Sales tax? To collect sales tax, you have to have sales -- I mean physical sales of things. No tax on services allowed. More and more, things can be purchased over the internet. I know people who have actually gone to Best Buy to look at a product like a computer, then gone home to order the same machine over the internet, saving themselves 7% on the sales tax (merchants offering free or nearly free shipping). At my bank, I don't pay service charges. On my two credit cards I never have balances carried over. Okay, so I "cheat" in this example by having an income that allows me to not borrow money. But if I never traveled and never made internet purchases, I would cut up my credit cards. And, oh yes, when I see an item I think is overpriced in a store, I either don't buy it OR I buy a lesser amount of it than I normally would (supermarkets are constantly adjusting prices up or down in response to demand and inventory, so I help them with their decision process). And yes, I am N = 1, and an outlier. But I'd bet you could find a (nonrandom) sample of thousands who have made this kind of adjustment, and thre are millions who would if they could. Why do people engage in this kind of behavior? First, it is highly rational for a subset of the population, albeit not supportive of government revenues or financial institutions. A second motive I would suggest is that those institutions are not trusted to serve public interests. Everytime I think such behavior might not be the "responsible thing to do," I think of A.I.G. and Goldman Sachs. There is one exception to this tight-fisted behavior -- the money I save on taxes I give to a food bank.
Cheap Charlie
Did you put a "originally posted on The Economic Populist" with a link?
We need that to fake out the Google as well as drive those serious about econ over here.
I never cross post over there personally because these days we're way more linked up to the economics blog community than the political sites. Just a FYI, but it does give a different bunch of readers.
I'll imagine then it's sales and property. In WA they have no income tax, which explains why it's so regressive.
Yeah. There are some people, who beyond violating even the most basic macro economic equations, well, anybody with a 2nd grade education know it's just ridiculous and will do the opposite of what they claim.
I'm getting kind of sick of it, well very sick of it. I mean it is very possible to craft common sense policy and legislation to strengthen the US, workers, middle class and so forth but instead when get these just completely absurd claims going on that frankly I don't see why anyone should be required to even hear such drivel.
I'm sick of them even getting paper to write on, never mind any air or press time.
We need serious policy modifications in this country and instead we get these "crazies" frankly, throwing out stuff that's just beyond the pale.
I shake my head. But that's also why we're here. We are the peanut gallery, we are some of working America...therefore I believe we're perfectly capable of commenting on what kind of economic policies we need.
I almost got a laugh out of that McBanknote until I realized it could be oir own currency someday (soon), After all, $100 used to buy a million zlotys, and I remember being in Yugoslavia back in the early 1990s when they acrually had two series of currency in circulation at the same time. Prices were in the newer (smaller size) banknotes. To determine the actual value of the older (larger) bill, you had to disregard the last four zeroes, so that 100,000 old dinars were actually 10 new dinars. You could be a millionaire but it didn't mean sh*t. I also remember the South Korean devaluation where new currency was worth 10% of the old. Some North Korean spies got caught because they argued with cashiers over not getting change back from an old 50 won piece. But a McBuck could have real value because it would be backed by something useful and sought after. As Wimpy used to say, "I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."
Frank T.
Don't mean to beat that same horse over and over again, but one need not even look at all those other dismal and toxic appointments of the Bush/Obama Administration --- simply take a close look at Diana Farrell --- Diana of the "we must offshore as many American jobs as possible."
Diana Farrell who edited, "Offshoring" and the author of that pathetic McKinsey Global Institute report proclaiming that as many American jobs as possible should be offshored --- it is sooooooo profitable, after all!
But do take a closer look at all the rest of his administration's appointments --- they pretty much mirror Farrell.
I've written about it and gotten blasted, in particular by JV because he is a day trader for a living, but I still think this would be a great tool, but it needs to be done globally.
It's a transaction tax on market trades and it's gaining a little more momentum in Congress.
Is the primary reason these state taxes are so regressive due to their sales taxes or the infamous loopholes so the rich do not pay, aka 15% profits for hedge funds and so on.
Great blog and catch, and I've always found Senator Hollings to be in that smallest of minorities, an honest senator!
I disagree with anything having to do with the WTO as I fully disagree with their Financial Services Agreement agenda.
I recall, just prior to being shipped overseas back in '70, perusing several separate articles from an antiquated military base library, one dated from the early '60s, by Upton Sinclair; the other dated in the late '60s by author Taylor Caldwell -- two people from seemingly opposite ends of the political spectrum.
While the articles were written by two separate individuals and separated by a number of years, they read almost identically the same (I admit to being somewhat skeptical at the time).
Both detailed how they had been invited to a celebration at a place in California called the Bohemian Grove, and each was briefed on the long-range plans of the ruling plutocrats. America, sometime in the early part of the 21st century, was due to be the next low-wage center, with the majority reduced to economic serfdom and the dissolution of any remaining middle-class (anathema to the plutocracy, of course!).
Now, it may seem odd that Upton Sinclair (and it did to me at the time, hence my skepticism) should be invited to such a gathering. But way back way, a guy named Ronald Reagan was a flaming liberal, and they certainly ended up turning him!
Well, much time has passed, and I'm certainly not skeptical any longer. The facts, and levels of existing corruption speak for themselves.
I've looked into this and unfortunately "some people" who really do not understand the "at the border" VAT adjustments claim it's a regressive sales tax. It does not have to be structured that way. But it is a legal WTO method to equalize trade.
I've written numerous posts on this already. One can offset the "regressivity" to get the benefit of it as a trade tool by domestic tax restructuring.
But it is not a "flat tax" or a national sales tax. It's item specific and literally can be changed dynamically, per item, all legal under the WTO. That's what China is doing too.
So, don't just dismiss this out of hand and miscategorize it for it's a strong tool for trade that the WTO already rules is legal and we've got about 140 countries using it against the US and increasing our trade deficit.
Read the China report I just overviewed (the actual report details in the link) on how China manipulates their VAT for trade advantage.
It will end up being implemented as a national sales tax, and will further place the burden on lower income Americans by helping to eliminate progressive income taxes that are able to actually increase public well-being, because they recognize that taxation should target higher incomes because there is a declining marginal utility of income.
My suggestion would be to that any VAT should only be implemented in against intra-business transfers, so as to target offshore outsourcing of production. Do rebates back for the multiplier impact of wages, and income taxes, paid in the US, and you have something.
But as a simple across the board tool implemented at the retail level, recognize that for what it is: a regressive national sales tax.
Gold is also one of the smallest markets in the world and hence prone to value manipulation, which the western central powers frequently do by selling gold to each other.
Gold is also over-represented in the paper market by a factor of 1000%, that is 90% of "gold" owned is a paper IOU.
Gold is pushed around by the economic controllers, who treat it with disdain, because they know they can manipulate paper currencies so much easier. As they lose control, they themselves hoard gold. Goldmans is secretly buying it every day.
The assessor of SF, Phil Ting, wants to be allowed to reassess commercial property without the requirement of a sale. We have had Prop. 13 for 30 years and many commercial properties have been sitting without reassessment for 30 years. This type of dysfunction will sink us.
AS I understand it, based on mass media headlines over the years, governments through their central banks can affect the exchange rate of currencies. For example, if the dollar is rising relative to the Yen, then the central bank of Japan and/or other central banks can cause the value of the Yen to stop falling and even rise by selling dollars and buying Yen.
If this is the case that central banks can affect the exchange rate of currencies AT WILL, i.e. the exchange rate is not affected by so called ‘free market forces’, then it is possible that China’s and India’s massive purchasing of gold is not a ‘hedge’ against dollar devaluation, rather it MAY BE a method of dollar value manipulation.
If I understand your usual excellent presentation, you make the case that gold value responds to dollar value. Isn’t this a reciprocal relation? That is, the dollar is responding to the gold value which is in turn being affected by central bank demand.
It seems to me that the post WW II economic paradigm has changed and the new paradigm has to do with the power of countries like India and China to affect world economic variables. Prior to circa 2000 India and China could not have a significant affect on the dollar. Now they may be able to affect the dollar, not directly through purchase and sales of their own currencies; rather indirectly through the purchase and sales of commodities.
Their ability to affect currency rates did not exist before. Now they can and our post WW II economic models have not been updated for these new very powerful variables.
Do students really pay for college economic courses and books? Years ago a pejorative directed some colleges was: “They teach basket weaving.” The new pejorative is: “They teach economics.”
Collectively, those office towers, hotels, shopping centers and apartment buildings have an assessed value of $21.25 billion - but their owners say they're worth about half that amount. If those claims stand, that could wipe $115.78 million off the property taxes the city collects.
Electronics demand accounted for 292.7 tonnes of gold. "Other Industrial" uses accounted for another 86.9 tonnes.
This is out of 3,804.7 tonnes of worldwide demand.
It really isn't a very large percentage on the whole scale of things. Although I will admit that if gold wasn't so expensive (as compared to, say, silver), the industrial demand would be a lot larger.
Jewelry has been the main driver of gold prices for decades now. Since the 2008 crash the demand driver has been shifting to investment, although jewelry still remains dominant. If central banks keep buying like they have in 2009 then gold's rebirth as a monetized metal will be complete.
and some other advanced manufacturing processes. So, I personally believe it does have value, just a a pure commodity.
I wish I had some of those econ "books" put out about 1999. They had the laws of supply/demand diverging, the lines never crossed and it was called the "new economy". I laughed out loud in a Borders store reading one and I guess people thought I was a little nuts at the time, laughing at the fiction I was reading with all sorts of little graphs and charts describing the "new economy". Now I wish I had bought it for prosperity.
From my point of view the trouble with this dialogue about China is the word 'Blame.'
Blame is a moral term, and morality is largely relative and subjective - point of view - value judgement, etc.
I'm more comfortable with the word 'cause'. That's scientific -objective and subject of proof or probabilistic judgement.
My hypothesis is that the 'causes' of the present economic situation generally and visa vis China in particular are to be found in decisions of the American financial and political oligarchy.
For example, a particular hypothesis may be that the peg of the RMB has been agreed to in Washington in return for reciprocals such as China supporting Treasury issues. I'm not saying that is the case. I'm saying is the type of 'causality' that should be researched empirically.
Do the science! Find the cause and then argue the morality.
Could it be that we are finding ways not to spend money we don't have? Here in Florida, the state constitution says "No Income Tax", thank you very much.For most of us, it means that all that us left (ex fees and at the pump gasoline tax) becomes real estate and sales taxes. People are appealing their inflated tax assessments -- despite their being lower than last year by 25%. Sales tax? To collect sales tax, you have to have sales -- I mean physical sales of things. No tax on services allowed. More and more, things can be purchased over the internet. I know people who have actually gone to Best Buy to look at a product like a computer, then gone home to order the same machine over the internet, saving themselves 7% on the sales tax (merchants offering free or nearly free shipping). At my bank, I don't pay service charges. On my two credit cards I never have balances carried over. Okay, so I "cheat" in this example by having an income that allows me to not borrow money. But if I never traveled and never made internet purchases, I would cut up my credit cards. And, oh yes, when I see an item I think is overpriced in a store, I either don't buy it OR I buy a lesser amount of it than I normally would (supermarkets are constantly adjusting prices up or down in response to demand and inventory, so I help them with their decision process). And yes, I am N = 1, and an outlier. But I'd bet you could find a (nonrandom) sample of thousands who have made this kind of adjustment, and thre are millions who would if they could. Why do people engage in this kind of behavior? First, it is highly rational for a subset of the population, albeit not supportive of government revenues or financial institutions. A second motive I would suggest is that those institutions are not trusted to serve public interests. Everytime I think such behavior might not be the "responsible thing to do," I think of A.I.G. and Goldman Sachs. There is one exception to this tight-fisted behavior -- the money I save on taxes I give to a food bank.
Cheap Charlie
This is unreal! Zero Hedge is wondering if it's going to hit 1200 in 24 hours.
Something is happening.
Did you put a "originally posted on The Economic Populist" with a link?
We need that to fake out the Google as well as drive those serious about econ over here.
I never cross post over there personally because these days we're way more linked up to the economics blog community than the political sites. Just a FYI, but it does give a different bunch of readers.
I'll imagine then it's sales and property. In WA they have no income tax, which explains why it's so regressive.
Yeah. There are some people, who beyond violating even the most basic macro economic equations, well, anybody with a 2nd grade education know it's just ridiculous and will do the opposite of what they claim.
I'm getting kind of sick of it, well very sick of it. I mean it is very possible to craft common sense policy and legislation to strengthen the US, workers, middle class and so forth but instead when get these just completely absurd claims going on that frankly I don't see why anyone should be required to even hear such drivel.
I'm sick of them even getting paper to write on, never mind any air or press time.
We need serious policy modifications in this country and instead we get these "crazies" frankly, throwing out stuff that's just beyond the pale.
I shake my head. But that's also why we're here. We are the peanut gallery, we are some of working America...therefore I believe we're perfectly capable of commenting on what kind of economic policies we need.
I almost got a laugh out of that McBanknote until I realized it could be oir own currency someday (soon), After all, $100 used to buy a million zlotys, and I remember being in Yugoslavia back in the early 1990s when they acrually had two series of currency in circulation at the same time. Prices were in the newer (smaller size) banknotes. To determine the actual value of the older (larger) bill, you had to disregard the last four zeroes, so that 100,000 old dinars were actually 10 new dinars. You could be a millionaire but it didn't mean sh*t. I also remember the South Korean devaluation where new currency was worth 10% of the old. Some North Korean spies got caught because they argued with cashiers over not getting change back from an old 50 won piece. But a McBuck could have real value because it would be backed by something useful and sought after. As Wimpy used to say, "I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."
Frank T.
sales, property, and income taxes, so I don't know about the corporate tax angle.
I'm at the top of the rec list over at Daily Kos. Glad to see that something came of my day else than not studying for the korean test that I need to.
Don't mean to beat that same horse over and over again, but one need not even look at all those other dismal and toxic appointments of the Bush/Obama Administration --- simply take a close look at Diana Farrell --- Diana of the "we must offshore as many American jobs as possible."
Diana Farrell who edited, "Offshoring" and the author of that pathetic McKinsey Global Institute report proclaiming that as many American jobs as possible should be offshored --- it is sooooooo profitable, after all!
But do take a closer look at all the rest of his administration's appointments --- they pretty much mirror Farrell.
now having 50 different jurisdictions to try to find the latest screw job in.
I know many states were busy building "day labor" centers on the taxpayer's dime, while cutting people from Medicaid.
So, have you checked out this Torbin Tax Geithner threw it under the bus.
I've written about it and gotten blasted, in particular by JV because he is a day trader for a living, but I still think this would be a great tool, but it needs to be done globally.
It's a transaction tax on market trades and it's gaining a little more momentum in Congress.
Is the primary reason these state taxes are so regressive due to their sales taxes or the infamous loopholes so the rich do not pay, aka 15% profits for hedge funds and so on.
Great blog and catch, and I've always found Senator Hollings to be in that smallest of minorities, an honest senator!
I disagree with anything having to do with the WTO as I fully disagree with their Financial Services Agreement agenda.
I recall, just prior to being shipped overseas back in '70, perusing several separate articles from an antiquated military base library, one dated from the early '60s, by Upton Sinclair; the other dated in the late '60s by author Taylor Caldwell -- two people from seemingly opposite ends of the political spectrum.
While the articles were written by two separate individuals and separated by a number of years, they read almost identically the same (I admit to being somewhat skeptical at the time).
Both detailed how they had been invited to a celebration at a place in California called the Bohemian Grove, and each was briefed on the long-range plans of the ruling plutocrats. America, sometime in the early part of the 21st century, was due to be the next low-wage center, with the majority reduced to economic serfdom and the dissolution of any remaining middle-class (anathema to the plutocracy, of course!).
Now, it may seem odd that Upton Sinclair (and it did to me at the time, hence my skepticism) should be invited to such a gathering. But way back way, a guy named Ronald Reagan was a flaming liberal, and they certainly ended up turning him!
Well, much time has passed, and I'm certainly not skeptical any longer. The facts, and levels of existing corruption speak for themselves.
I've looked into this and unfortunately "some people" who really do not understand the "at the border" VAT adjustments claim it's a regressive sales tax. It does not have to be structured that way. But it is a legal WTO method to equalize trade.
I've written numerous posts on this already. One can offset the "regressivity" to get the benefit of it as a trade tool by domestic tax restructuring.
But it is not a "flat tax" or a national sales tax. It's item specific and literally can be changed dynamically, per item, all legal under the WTO. That's what China is doing too.
So, don't just dismiss this out of hand and miscategorize it for it's a strong tool for trade that the WTO already rules is legal and we've got about 140 countries using it against the US and increasing our trade deficit.
Read the China report I just overviewed (the actual report details in the link) on how China manipulates their VAT for trade advantage.
this thing is a bad, bad, bad idea.
It will end up being implemented as a national sales tax, and will further place the burden on lower income Americans by helping to eliminate progressive income taxes that are able to actually increase public well-being, because they recognize that taxation should target higher incomes because there is a declining marginal utility of income.
My suggestion would be to that any VAT should only be implemented in against intra-business transfers, so as to target offshore outsourcing of production. Do rebates back for the multiplier impact of wages, and income taxes, paid in the US, and you have something.
But as a simple across the board tool implemented at the retail level, recognize that for what it is: a regressive national sales tax.
Gold is also one of the smallest markets in the world and hence prone to value manipulation, which the western central powers frequently do by selling gold to each other.
Gold is also over-represented in the paper market by a factor of 1000%, that is 90% of "gold" owned is a paper IOU.
Gold is pushed around by the economic controllers, who treat it with disdain, because they know they can manipulate paper currencies so much easier. As they lose control, they themselves hoard gold. Goldmans is secretly buying it every day.
The assessor of SF, Phil Ting, wants to be allowed to reassess commercial property without the requirement of a sale. We have had Prop. 13 for 30 years and many commercial properties have been sitting without reassessment for 30 years. This type of dysfunction will sink us.
AS I understand it, based on mass media headlines over the years, governments through their central banks can affect the exchange rate of currencies. For example, if the dollar is rising relative to the Yen, then the central bank of Japan and/or other central banks can cause the value of the Yen to stop falling and even rise by selling dollars and buying Yen.
If this is the case that central banks can affect the exchange rate of currencies AT WILL, i.e. the exchange rate is not affected by so called ‘free market forces’, then it is possible that China’s and India’s massive purchasing of gold is not a ‘hedge’ against dollar devaluation, rather it MAY BE a method of dollar value manipulation.
If I understand your usual excellent presentation, you make the case that gold value responds to dollar value. Isn’t this a reciprocal relation? That is, the dollar is responding to the gold value which is in turn being affected by central bank demand.
It seems to me that the post WW II economic paradigm has changed and the new paradigm has to do with the power of countries like India and China to affect world economic variables. Prior to circa 2000 India and China could not have a significant affect on the dollar. Now they may be able to affect the dollar, not directly through purchase and sales of their own currencies; rather indirectly through the purchase and sales of commodities.
Their ability to affect currency rates did not exist before. Now they can and our post WW II economic models have not been updated for these new very powerful variables.
Do students really pay for college economic courses and books? Years ago a pejorative directed some colleges was: “They teach basket weaving.” The new pejorative is: “They teach economics.”
crisis things are pretty bad.
RebelCapitalist.com - Financial Information for the Rest of Us.
from CR: CRE Owners Seeking Property Tax Relief
This is a huge hole in a city budget:
RebelCapitalist.com - Financial Information for the Rest of Us.
Electronics demand accounted for 292.7 tonnes of gold. "Other Industrial" uses accounted for another 86.9 tonnes.
This is out of 3,804.7 tonnes of worldwide demand.
It really isn't a very large percentage on the whole scale of things. Although I will admit that if gold wasn't so expensive (as compared to, say, silver), the industrial demand would be a lot larger.
Jewelry has been the main driver of gold prices for decades now. Since the 2008 crash the demand driver has been shifting to investment, although jewelry still remains dominant. If central banks keep buying like they have in 2009 then gold's rebirth as a monetized metal will be complete.
and some other advanced manufacturing processes. So, I personally believe it does have value, just a a pure commodity.
I wish I had some of those econ "books" put out about 1999. They had the laws of supply/demand diverging, the lines never crossed and it was called the "new economy". I laughed out loud in a Borders store reading one and I guess people thought I was a little nuts at the time, laughing at the fiction I was reading with all sorts of little graphs and charts describing the "new economy". Now I wish I had bought it for prosperity.
I often forget that sometimes words matter and assuredly, trying to analyze objectively, from the facts, stats and theory is the point.
We have way too much moral outrage and not enough verifiable fact.
From my point of view the trouble with this dialogue about China is the word 'Blame.'
Blame is a moral term, and morality is largely relative and subjective - point of view - value judgement, etc.
I'm more comfortable with the word 'cause'. That's scientific -objective and subject of proof or probabilistic judgement.
My hypothesis is that the 'causes' of the present economic situation generally and visa vis China in particular are to be found in decisions of the American financial and political oligarchy.
For example, a particular hypothesis may be that the peg of the RMB has been agreed to in Washington in return for reciprocals such as China supporting Treasury issues. I'm not saying that is the case. I'm saying is the type of 'causality' that should be researched empirically.
Do the science! Find the cause and then argue the morality.
That's my value judgement.
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