Did you know China has universal health care? I thought I mentioned that because there is another thing that U.S. businesses trying to compete with China are up against.

The only reason we don't have some form of single payer coverage is because congress and White House are bought and paid for by big pharma and private health insurance industry.

There is NO good reason to preserve the employer sponsored health care system we have today.

RebelCapitalist.com - Financial Information for the Rest of Us.

We knew that China was an authoritarian government with a centralized economy. What policy makers wanted for them and their multi-national corporation benefactors was a place for cheap labor.

And even look at the past 16 years where China was allowed to dump products at will into U.S. destroying U.S. industries w/out consequences. Who's to blame for that?

China is doing capitalism much better than we are. Is it fair? Hell no but that is the engagement with China that we instigated and China is taking advantage of it 100%.

RebelCapitalist.com - Financial Information for the Rest of Us.

I don't get why you guys are going off on this.

Of course China is to blame. They are manipulating their currency, manipulating their VAT tax almost daily, have strong restrictions, requirements of foreign companies operating in China and prop up our debt which creates super cheap money to buy their products.

What is not to blame?

If you're trying to say D.C. is the ones who let all of this happen, of course this is true...

but you've got a country who is literally putting thousands of spies for industrial espionage in our universities and companies....

Of course the U.S. doesn't lift a finger to stop this.

So, if you're trying to say the U.S. is the real culprit because they signed onto this in the first place, the ultimate being the China PNTR agreement then that answer is yes and it's D.C. fault because they refuse to do anything about this myrmid of activities by China, of course D.C. is to blame...

but D.C. does not control the RMB and it's peg. They can enact policies, even tariffs to deal with this peg and I think they should, just simply do an across the board tariff equal to whatever the real RMB value should be.

But trying to imply China doesn't have a major responsibility in this mess I think is a mistake.

Particularly those municipalities that rely heavily on real property taxes and this could be a problem that gets a lot worse in years to come.

Most real property tax is calculated based on an assessed value - not necessarily fair market value - and the assessed value is typically is lower than FMV. Plus with decline in FMV more people will file appeals for their assessed values because decrease in FMV. Lower assessed values will mean lower real property tax revenue for a while and if sales don't pick up there goes another source of revenue for municipalities.

Chicago is considering selling one airport and its water & sewer system.

RebelCapitalist.com - Financial Information for the Rest of Us.

Yes the U.S. gave away our economy to China by refusing to act. The Bush administration did pretty much nothing. Clinton push for and signed the China PNTR. So, yes action needs to come from D.C. but I think the first step to action is to cut through the denial. If people realize what China is doing and how bad it is of a problem for the U.S. economy, never mind the U.S. worker, maybe they will demand more action. It's bad enough one of the campaign promises was to get China to float their currency and of course that campaign promise was broken.

Over on HuffPo.

I completely agree with this and if anything stinks to high heaven, it's that "certain players" made the biggest profits ever during bail outs.

There really needs to be an investigation with penalties.

Learsy mentions a PIMCO deal where they made the biggest payout ever when Fannie/Freddie were rescued as well as AIG and how GS was involved in the meeting to bail out AIG.

It stinks to high heaven and it's nice to read someone else demanding an investigation.

Amazing. The leakage continues. Even with lower dollar we can't get positive net exports. This shows how powerful China's currency peg truly is - in my opinion.

RebelCapitalist.com - Financial Information for the Rest of Us.

You realize NDD used to post here, proclaimed us Doom & Gloom and moved over the Bonddad's blog at which point we got the "V" recovery and "V" jobs recovery posts which most of us here believe are off the mark.

So, maybe NDD has returned to planet Earth, reality is sinking in and he will return to writing those great posts which I frankly miss.

I don't know what happened really. Maybe he just got so sick of the depressing news, it affected him and he went on some joy ride searching high and low for something positive.

It is very depressing and knowing that our lovely policy makers and government have directly caused this, it did not have to happen at all, is even more depressing.

It's probably even the emotional bomb for all of those who worked, volunteered to get Obama elected thinking they would get some real change...

Seriously. Else, I cannot explain that cherry pick hunt by not just NDD, but Bonddad, trying to claim that recovery is around the corner.

Maybe the ghost of Hoover took over their brains for awhile and they were possessed.

:) But if he's returning to planet Earth it would be nice to see some of his older style, feet firmly planted in the ground type of writings.

New Deal Dem. ‘Blinks’ – oh…ooh!

I’m never sure if I understand the substance of New Deal Democrat. His data is massive and, to my mind, esoteric. But, there is never any doubt about his conclusions. Metaphorically he is the quintessential ‘Green Shooter’.

He buries you in positive correlates of previous recession ending growth; he ignorers negative correlates which he thinks is the stuff of ‘doom and gloom’ analyst; and he never deals with macro questions like what industries are going to lead us back to ‘full employment?’

Well today all that changed. And call me ‘chicken little’ if you will. But, now I think the economic sky is really falling.

He writes:

“John Maynard Keynes famously justified a change in opinion by saying, "When the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do?" Well, a critical fact in my analysis has changed.

"Three indicators -- ISM manufacturing, Initial Jobless Claims, and Industrial Production -- are now at levels typically associated with actual job growth in previous recoveries. All three of these series exceed their growth in the two "jobless recoveries" of 1992-3 and 2002-3.

"The "Holy Grail," however, Real retail sales, is only trending sideways or slightly higher albeit for unique reasons (cash for clunkers). The substantial downward revisions in real retail sales in August and September call into question when the overall jobs number will turn.”

I respect him for ‘facing facts’. Indeed, I respect him for the magnitude of his research. However, it seems to me that he never accepted what I believe is an unequivocal correlate of retail sales, growth and jobs – CREDIT. The credit bubble of recent decades created demand and therefore jobs. Today, people are tapped out. No jobs or jobs with marginal income, no credit cards and no home equity loans.

I think, VERY subjectively, that NDD “could not see the trees through the forest.” He is so steeped in the minutia of the data that he missed the economic ‘big picture’ – i.e. the role of the credit bubble in previous post recession growth.

New post WW II economic theory, it seems to me, has to consider: Is it possible to grow an economy without a credit bubble? Empirically, are there any paradigmatic examples of economies growing without a credit bubble; e.g. China?

Robert Oak may be correct that we are victims of China’s protectionism. I can’t say because the economics is beyond me. But, while we confront, we may want to learn. China’s success, I don’t think, is solely the result of ‘taking advantage.’ But, I think (what is unthinkable in our culture) the most important line in Robert’s post is:

“China’s economic reforms were not based on traditional free market principles. China’s policy during the past 30 years has instead relied on a government-directed industrial policy to promote certain segments of the economy over others and to bolster export-led growth.’

I think we are at an historic cross roads: can a ‘market economy’ compete with a ‘government directed economy’? We think we won the cold war because our market economy is superior to a planned economy. We ignore all the other variables that led to the collapse of the Soviet Union. We missed the fact that while the Soviet Union was collapsing China was growing. And, we still don’t understand why. China was growing before it was in a position to cause US economic troubles. I think protectionism is one variable, but complex economies are multi-variable phenomena. We need to look at all of them if we are going to understand such economies.

This in no way is a challenge to Robert's very interesting and informative post. Rather, a tangental thought stimulated by the post.