If you got no income, you cannot borrow. HuffPo (why is it when you go to the corporate website these so called press releases that have damning information are never posted and how do we get better access to them?) has an article showing the drop in credit scores:

Figures provided by FICO Inc. show that 25.5 percent of consumers – nearly 43.4 million people – now have a credit score of 599 or below, marking them as poor risks for lenders. It's unlikely they will be able to get credit cards, auto loans or mortgages under the tighter lending standards banks now use.

Because consumers relied so heavily on debt to fuel their spending in recent years, their restricted access to credit is one reason for the slow economic recovery.

"I don't get paid for loan applications, I get paid for closings," said Ritch Workman, a Melbourne, Fla., mortgage broker. "I have plenty of business, but I'm struggling to stay open."

FICO's latest analysis is based on consumer credit reports as of April. Its findings represent an increase of about 2.4 million people in the lowest credit score categories in the past two years. Before the Great Recession, scores on FICO's 300-to-850 scale weren't as volatile, said Andrew Jennings, chief research officer for FICO in Minneapolis. Historically, just 15 percent of the 170 million consumers with active credit accounts, or 25.5 million people, fell below 599, according to data posted on Myfico.com.

But, on the other hand, there are plenty of reports of people who perfectly solid income streams getting denied credit over absurdities.

I'd like to see the percentage of denials when people are trying to refinance debt, mortgages to reduce their debt. I'll bet dollars to donuts that's where the credit crunch is, but I don't have the stats vs. percentage of people who are so broke, there is no way they can pay back their debt.

This article puts the consumer credit numbers into perspective.

The Wall Street Journal is one that looked at the Fed report in a different light. The real reason for the decline, the WSJ says, is that the “$19.5 billion in debt reduced in the first three months of the year, $18.7 billion of that – almost 96 percent – was actually written off by these credit card companies as being irretrievable.”
...
Essentially, the latest reports from credit card companies like JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Citigroup, Discover and American Express only cover a portion of the public – those who are still part of the credit system and have access to credit.
CreditLoan’s blog also says that because of unemployment, layoffs, pay cuts, many Americans have filed for bankruptcy, foreclosure, debt settlement, etc. These events have severely affected their credit scores as well as their access to credit. Simply put, many people do not have access to any line of credit anymore. “This fact again indicates that current reports on credit trends are inaccurate snapshots of the economy as a whole,” CreditLoan adds.

We have entered the post-credit world.

Anyone else notice this is like 1980 which is like 2001 which is like 2006 which is like 2008?

$1B Q2 additional profit due to some accounting rule.

There seems to be a premise to this discussion about jobs, deficits, and stimulus spending. It is that the govt. should do something to fix everything. We should remember that it was govt. intervention in the economy that got us here and what we need is for the govt. to STOP intervening. Everything the govt. has done has made the problem worse, which includes creating huge deficits, buying up bad debt, and printing more money. But the American people want a quick fix, and there is none. The best scenario would be for the govt. to let the markets correct themselves, deal with the bad loans and malinvestments and then we would see a genuine recovery. Going though that would be painful and would likely involve several years of hardship before the economy righted itself.

We would do well to remember that whatever the govt. does it is only redistributing wealth. It cannot create wealth.

I think that post you link to doesn't amplify the by ethnicity unemployment rate for Hispanics is 12.4% for June (higher than the overall) and they lost jobs by ethnicity group. i.e. this is some serious spin from your link. But it is true that illegal Hispanics displace legal/perm resident/U.S. citizen Hispanic workers, Blacks too and also ages 16-24, esp. for those minimum wage/summer jobs like fast food and seasonal farm work.

I did notice the foreign born disparity and put the statistics in this comment, with a lot of information on what that metric is and I did say it's alarming, but "foreign born" does not mean illegals only but it does count foreign guest workers in the statistics. Considering the Hispanic ethnicity unemployment rate is seems this disparity in the jobs is coming from something else.

You're right, bottom line, illegal and what jobs they took does not even come close to 400k jobs needed each month to get back to pre-recession levels in 4 years. Anybody believing if you just kick out the illegals and the U.S. unemployment problem is solved is sorely mistaken.

Illegal labor is also for the large part low wage, sometimes below minimum wage, unskilled jobs or skills without the pay for skilled jobs (some equipment operations and so on).

Unfortunately we don't have good estimates on the number of jobs offshore outsourced but it's in the millions. A mass exodus of jobs happened in 2001-2004 time frame and much of this was targeted on the tech sector. Then, manufacturing got hit badly by China and a recently estimate is 2.4 million jobs were lost from 2001-2008 just to China (shipped directly to China) alone.

Also, guest workers are often brought in to displace, for the direct purpose of displacing, U.S. workers, this is true especially in the technical areas and now teachers are getting it. Temporary foreign guest workers were supposed to be just that and two Visas the H-1B and L-1 facilitate the offshore outsourcing of U.S. jobs. Now there is probably a lot of worker displacement, substitution going on. 3.65 million guest workers, but there are about 13 different foreign guest worker Visa categories, so one needs better statistics per occupational sector and associated wages, but it sure looks like, from Post Docs to AG, wage repression is happening and that implies substitution, displacement, of U.S. workers.

Then, bad trade deals have cost millions of jobs. I might note we have institutionalized age discrimination going on.

Plus we do have some industry collapses in so many words, construction unemployment is over 20%.

Bottom line, your "grain of salt" is critical for anything to do with this topic. I have read the biggest B.S. I've ever seen, even in so called Academic research, when it comes to this topic. We have powerfully lobbyists who spew out spin with fictional statistics, so one has to not only dig to find the flaws but also look at raw stats. You cannot believe so many reports from the surface, because we have the cheap labor lobbists out there, who put out phony "white papers", the special interests who also wrote phony "white papers" and then we have the above link too...
i.e. we have B.S. coming from every direction.

One of the reasons it's so easy to write B.S. is because the BLS refuses to collect and publish accurate data on immigration status of workers. Also, corporations refuse to report and the government refuses to collect on how many jobs are offshore outsourced and these days, how many jobs are being created in other countries by multinational corporations who operate also in the U.S. So, a job might not be directly offshore outsourced, but a company maybe creating jobs in say India, while laying off thousands and thousands of U.S. workers. Merck just announced more of this a few days ago. Happens every day and rarely makes the press. Much of it is never announced or published by these companies.

Consider registering and getting an account to join in the discussion.

Someone here said "I don't believe that the Government Officials realize what they are about to cause."
Do you think these people are brain dead? Of course they know exactly what they are doing. This situation is making them more rich, 10 fold and taking total control of this country. They changed the laws so they pay less taxes. They changed the laws on bank regulations which is why we are in this mess. Trillions of our tax dollars were given to the banks to bail them out without ANY accountability so they could come back and screw us like never before but they won't extend unemployment? The thanks we have received from them for bailing them out is to openly rip off the American public with their credit card scams and mortgage scams, foreclosures and lay-offs. The more poor there are, the more they earn off the poor. Middle class are their target of destruction and profit because as we go broke the penalties and fees grow. Who do you think benefits from this? They changed the bankruptcies law so there is no possible way out now and once you default you will see how fast you will owe two to three times the amount and it's TO THEM. You will be a slave to them until you die and if there is anything left then they take most of that in the "death tax". Our government and the bankers are one in the same. Until the American public figures that out it's going to keep getting worse. The only way we can stop them now is revolt and revolution. That doesn't mean bloodshed. Changes can be made without violence. Organization in numbers stops these parasites from feeding off of us.

See this movie. It tells it like it is and what is really going on:
Capitalism A Love Story

no tener necesidad signo de interrogación a principios de frase. (¿)

Back in the Great Depression, there was no great underground economy. There was institutionalized discrimination against Blacks, Hispanics and women, and probably noninstitutionalized discrimination against Jews, Catholics and so on. But from the 1920's, immigration laws were enforced, so a large pool of illegal workers wasn't there. I'm not sure when the IRS started collecting taxes via W-2, but Social security (FICA) taxes were not collected until 1939, and it wasn't even passed until 1935. So, how many U.S. laborers were off the books or being paid in sandwiches in the 1930's? Good question. I cannot find out how well laws were enforced, but assuredly the FDR administration did a massive clean up on labor laws and procedures...Francis Perkins really turned the DOL into something for the U.S. worker, starting in 1934.

It's true illegal workers are about 5%-9% of the total workforce and the underground economy is about 8% -14% (estimates vary widely) of GDP in 2009.

To estimate illegal labor as a percentage. Take non-institutional civilian population, 237,690,000 and then divide by the estimated # of illegals in the U.S. 22 million gives a ratio of 9.3%. Now, of those illegals, there are people who are not members of the noninstitutional population. That's kids, those in prison, and the aged. Then of the noninstitutional population, assuredly there are some who are not working for a variety of reasons, hence would not be in the labor force.

Since illegals come to the U.S. to work illegally, there probably is a larger percentage that are workers instead of kids, aged, retired than the U.S. overall population.

So, I would take the 22 million, divide it by half to give a rough estimate of 4.6% to 5.0% of the U.S. workforce.

These are very, very rough calculations, just going off of recent numbers. I couldn't find a more accurate number crunch but I am sure claiming illegals are 25% of the U.S. worker pool is way, way off.

?I wonder about the Underground Economy Workers?.
Several years ago there were all these stories about the off book workers, and were they 10% or were they 25% of the work force.
Then the Stories all disappeared, like some government department flipped a switch.
However if they weren't counted back then, and they are not counted now, ?How do whe know how they affect U-3, or U-6?

Markos sentiment is that if they pay him to get his message out, who cares. I agree with him. When you're rolling dough, then get picky. Until then, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I can tune out the picture as well as the propaganda in the msm.